So I'm applying for this job in Far Off Land. It's not really what I had in mind, especially for my first position out of grad school, and it's very unlikely that my bid for it will be successful. But still, I'm applying, and I would like for my application to not be laughable.
Since I hadn't really planned on applying for anything other than postdocs at this point, I'm not sure how to prepare a good application. On top of that, I'm noticing some cultural differences that are confusing me. Far Off Land is quite similar to the US overall, but minor differences crop up from time to time. EGM and I note them with interest (or sometimes frustration) and then move on. In other words, the subtle cultural differences haven't really had any impact on my behavior, like how I deal with EGM or his family.
But now with this job thing, I'm confronted with some small things that seem totally weird. For example, they suggest writing your interests and hobbies on your cv. That feels uncomfortable to me, since I haven't seen it before. Where do I write that? What sorts of things are cv-worthy? I don't really have a whole heck of a lot of hobbies -- can I put that I really love watching Lost? Or that I spend much of my free time reading anonymous blogs? I'm guessing they expect the applicants to say how much they love back-country camping or rock climbing or something. I mean, I like camping and all but it's not like it's a major hobby. Another example of things that seem strange to my American sensibilities: you can bring your family along if you get an interview, but you have to write in your cover letter if that is something you plan to do. huh?
So, I have no idea what to write in my cover letter, or how best to structure my cv for a job like this as it is. But now I'm even less confident because of the cultural differences at play. EGM has explained some of the issues, but is equally inexperienced and has been in the US long enough that I don't think he can offer a whole lot of help. It probably doesn't matter anyway since I'm not at all competitive for the job, but I'd still like to put my best foot forward on the application. Also, I guess it's a bit of a lesson in how EGM's background is different from mine, even though we overlook it most of the time.
13 comments:
Could you potentially get some input on your application from EGM family? His parents/siblings could maybe advise you which hobbies are good in terms of CV (for example hitch-hiking would not be acceptable in UK, which is totally weird for a person from Easter Europe).
There are even huge difference about applications between European counties, for example in UK you do not submit any documents with your CV whereas in Switzerland and Germany you are supposed to put in a whole package with copies of all your diplomas since High School. And a picture on CV - totally freaky!
Dude, I totally can't imagine putting my photo on a CV. How off-putting! But it's nice that you pointed out that these little differences among similar (by distance or by culture) countries are common, because it suggests that the committee will expect some weirdness.
EGM can help me some, but his parents are probably not as helpful since they have little to no experience with academia. I have, however, been getting some advice with a former colleague who is from FOL, did her phd and postdoc in the US, and is now back in FOL.
EGF; where I come from it is usual to list "hobbies" as a last thing on your CV, at least old school CVs... and there I wrote "skating on natural lakes (it sounds better in native tounge), reading, volounteer work in local scout movement, cooking and hanging out with friends". Then again, that would be a perfectly normal native where I come from. that or "singing in the choir". They simply want to know if you have any people skills or some "nature loving" ;)
odd I know. Of course, after being in US for 3 years I would fail miserale since "involved in church activities" wouldn't work back home since religion is the only thing you don't put on there (if you want to be regarded as 'norma' that is). minor culture differences indeed.
Good luck!! I am sure you will rock! (i am not sure that your hobbies are key to put on the cv if you put everything else as an US like cv??)
Chall, did you list your hobbies on your CV for your current job in the US? And I think "skating on natural lakes" sounds quite nice in English as well, as it conjures a rather quaint and romantic image.
I think I focused this post on this one issue because I'm uncomfortable with the whole application.
hah, I actually did :) Although, it was mainly because I had no idea that this was not the US way of doing things. (not to mention mention/brag about my language skills... they were on that thing too... ) Nowadays it is gone from my more "us professional" CVs and resumes.... Both of those things were the stuff people asked me about when I interviewed though "do you really skate on naturla ices" and "can you really talk French and German? Let's check since these two in the lab come from those countries".... (lucky me, I did not exaggerate.)
I can see that you are uncomfortable with the whole thing. You just need to "trick yourself into loving it" when you write the application and cover letter. My firm belief is that otherwise it shines through. Just try and think you'd be great in the position, write why you'd be great and let go.
Good luck!! I am sure they will be more impressed with your aplication than you think!
EGF: I think local people can still be useful as far as advice on what hobbies to put in on your CV, even if they do not know about academia. It is a culture thing.
This part of CV exists to show that you are "normal" and that there are some things that interest you outside your job (it is expected in some countries not to be only 100% devoted to your job, as this makes you a boring person). On the other hand those hobbies should not be so demanding on time, as to take away the focus of your life on the job ;-)
I have read advice from Careers Service at British Universities not to put on there any dangerous or weird activities (no hitch-hiking, bungee-jumping or such) and not to put only very general activities (going out, cinema, reading). One thing that makes you stand out in some way (that makes you you) e.g. singing in a choir, could be a good starting point for a general conversation when breaking the ice at the interview for example.
Then put some activities that you enjoy that show that you are quite sociable, and active person, something that is good for an academic to have in the FOL (hiking, some team sports - playing, even with friends, rather than watching).
Being involved in and aware of academic issues could also be a good thing, and show that you are serious about academia, but you do not have to say you read blogs, maybe just say that you follow the issues and discussions on internet, by reading articles not just about science, but also about broader issues, funding system, ect. But maybe it is better not to mention the word "politics" ;-)
Check for example this link Couple of links:
http://www.greatcvs.co.uk/hobbies-and-interests-that-command-attention-on-a-cv.html
Thanks for the advise, both of you!
About the hobbies, I wrote that I love to bake chocolate cakes, and sometimes I think that may be one of the reasons why my prof took me ;)
No seriously, but like with the rest of your CV, I think you just take the hobbies that somehow are most related to the job. Or that sound best. I would also never mention that I like best to plug out the phone and lie in bed all day to read teenage vampire novels :)
I have been reading a lot about applying for jobs when I applied and even got registered for a monthly free magazine dedicated to the job market for higher educated persons, which I still get since I am too lazy to stop it. Last week I red a similar (Dutch) question, this is what they answered:
about hobbies: they look at them to see if you are a people person or not, have an open mind for other things. For instance: I wrote that I compete in horseback riding, which is a very solitary sport. I have been questioned once about this since the hiring people wanted a team-player, thus they were looking for a person who played a team sport. It helps if you find a balance between solitary vs group things, indoor and outdoor, perhaps put some volunteering in there. After this interview for team-players I put down I also helped out organizing children/junior rider days and junior competitions at my local horseback school, giving my solitary hobby a more team feeling. Try not to bet on one, show that you both function on your own, and in a team. Don't lye, but I did sort of invented this volunteering day thing, I only did that once. But I did do it...
Do NOT make up para-gliding, rock wall climbing and such, since over here they are sort of done with these fancy hobbies (I red last week), unless you really do these things OFTEN.
EGF, I guess the other option is to weave the social skill into the cover letter. you know like "as a scout leader I have realised how important it is with food safety being out in the woods a lot and therefore I started with the food safety classes". I dunno if it works but i think mainly the hobbies/cover letter stories make you stand out a bit.
It is harder in an Academia setting though. Maybe it is easier to write in the CV "head of collaboration" or something to that effect to show that you are a social person who can work with others than people in your group?
btw, I have heard the same as Lin in regards to the solitary hobby (reading), but I tried to add a more "social" activity (cooking with friends and family). that was of course a very popular key phrase a few years back in my home country ;)
I understand the challenge but I don't have much advice... asking a friend or colleague who is familiar with the system/culture for help sounds great. In school we were taught to include not only a picture, but also the jobs of our parents on the CV!
Good luck!
One piece of advice I heard said "don't put that you like 'reading and walking'. Everyone reads and walks. You may as well put 'breathing and farting'".
Sorry, that wasn't much use, was it? Do what everyone else suggested ;)
FWIW, Blue Lab Coats has a couple of great posts about applying for academic positions, if you haven't seen them already.
In the US, I think if your hobbies have to do with public or community service, it's perfectly fine to include them because they relate to your leadership skills, outreach, etc. But in science, yes, anything about non-science-related hobbies tends to make you look "unfocused" (especially for women).
Having said that, it might not be obvious what's relevant. I worked for one guy who did animal-related research and wanted to hire a technician/lab manager who had some animal-raising experience.
He pulled out those CVs and asked about it specifically during the interview, even though it wasn't even mentioned as a requirement in the advertisement (for obvious avoiding-PETA-backlash kinds of reasons).
The same kind of thing goes for people who garden, enjoy looking at stars with an amateur telescope, photography, drawing, writing, etc. Many of those skills translate well to giving you an advantage at various real-life jobs.
I think the rule of thumb is, don't put anything on there that you're not willing to talk about during the interview. But if you can do a spiel that relates it to your career potential, and it's even slightly unique (without being death-defying or otherwise controversial in a bad way), then go for it.
good luck-
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